Oh - and just as an aside - no one has posted ANYTHING on the WomenStrength tribe about either Mother's Day or Feminism vs. Humanism since I posted there...
I find it amusing that, in the face of absolute logic and specific definitions, they cannot form further arguments about the situation... Must mean I said something that MEANT something, rather than just ranting like they did.
~M
Showing posts with label Feminist BS. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Feminist BS. Show all posts
Saturday, November 18, 2006
Saturday, November 11, 2006
Strength? No. Random Hatred? You Betcha!
This little gem was posted on the WomenStrength group on Tribe.net... For a bunch of people who claim to be feminists supporting and upholding the rights of everyone, they sure are a negative, hatefilled bunch, eh? The original post is in Bold type, and my response is what follows... Enjoy!
"MOTHER'S DAY IS OPPRESSIVE AND SEXIST AND WAS PUT TOGETHER BY THE DOMINANT MALE CULTURE AS A REASON TO BLAME WOMEN FOR THE NEGATIVE/POSITIVE OUTCOME OF THE NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG MEN THAT WILL ONE DAY TAKE THEIR DOMINEERING AND OPPRESSIVE PLACES. AND ALSO AS "A PAT ON THE BACK" FOR WOMEN WHO WERE "SEEN AND NOT HEARD" "
Sheryn - I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying the definition you've provided. It sounds to me as though you are driven by a high amount of negativity toward anything male, and you don't wish to accept any option other than "Men Bad - banish all men - or at the very least, make them all subservient and castrate them all".
The following is the definition of Mother's Day, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother's_Day
"Different countries celebrate Mother's Day on various days of the year because the day has a number of different origins. One school of thought claims this day emerged from a custom of mother worship in ancient Greece. Mother worship - which kept a festival to Cybele, a great mother of gods, and Rhea, the wife of Cronus - was held around the Vernal Equinox around Asia Minor and eventually in Rome itself from the Ides of March (March 15) to March 18.
"In the United States, Mother's Day was originally conceived by social activist Julia Ward Howe during the American Civil War with a call to unite women against war. She wrote the Mother's Day Proclamation:
"From the voice of a devastated Earth a voice goes up with
Our own. It says: "Disarm! Disarm!
The sword of murder is not the balance of justice.
"Blood does not wipe our dishonor,
Nor violence indicate possession.
As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil at the summons of war,
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great and earnest day of counsel.
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the meansWhereby the great human family can live in peace...
"Howe failed in her attempt to get formal recognition of a Mother's Day for Peace. Her idea was influenced by Anna Jarvis, a young Appalachian homemaker who, starting in 1858, had attempted to improve sanitation through what she called Mothers' Work Days. She organized women throughout the Civil War to work for better sanitary conditions for both sides, and in 1868 she began work to reconcile Union and Confederate neighbors.
"When Jarvis died, her daughter, also named Anna Jarvis, started the crusade to found a memorial day for women. The first such Mother's Day was celebrated in Grafton, West Virginia, on May 10, 1908, in the church where the elder Anna Jarvis had taught Sunday School. Grafton is the home to the International Mother's Day Shrine. From there, the custom caught on - spreading eventually to 45 states. The holiday was declared officially by somes states beginning in 1912. In 1914 President Woodrow Wilson declared the first national Mother's Day. Nine years after the first official Mother's Day holiday, commercialization of the U.S. holiday became so rampant that Anna Jarvis herself became a major opponent of what the holiday had become."
Eileen, as a point of reference, Hallmark did NOT come up with the idea of Mother's Day - they may have been the driving force behind the marketing schemes of today, but they did NOT create it.
If we go with the first school of thought, that it was created waaaaaay back in ancient Greece - possibly before - then we are on a track of the more Pagan and matriarchal aspects of society, and it could possibly not only be linked to May Day and the Equinox celebrations of fertility, but also to the Ides of March, Goddess-worship, and rites of passage into womanhood. Being thankful that one IS woman, that one has the ability to create life, to nurture, and to be an embodiment of a goddess in one's creating of life. Not to mention celebrating the whole "mother earth" idea, which cradles, nurtures and nourishes each and every person on her.
If we then decide to add in what Julia Howe and Anna Jarvis wanted most of all with their movement, which was to try and rally women together to unite for peace and work together toward a common goal, regardless of which side of the issue they were on (in their day, it was specifically the Civil War), it then takes on even further significance, and should not be hated at all.
So, taken all of the this together, instead of concentrating on the consumer-driven, corporate hoo-ha that's been hyped for years, concentrate instead on this:
Mother's Day could be looked upon as a day wherein we - as women, whether we be mothers, daughters, sisters, or aunts - can come together in a united effort to recognize the power that we have in the ability to create life, to nurture, and to nourish each other and the earth, and the power that the earth has to create life, to nourish and to nurture us.
Instead of focusing upon the negative aspect of what this has become, start a new trend for it, and have your friends and family join in. It doesn't have to be a negative day, or a day of hatred toward anything, whether general or specific. Turn it positive, and stop buying into the hype with your negativity.
~M
"MOTHER'S DAY IS OPPRESSIVE AND SEXIST AND WAS PUT TOGETHER BY THE DOMINANT MALE CULTURE AS A REASON TO BLAME WOMEN FOR THE NEGATIVE/POSITIVE OUTCOME OF THE NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG MEN THAT WILL ONE DAY TAKE THEIR DOMINEERING AND OPPRESSIVE PLACES. AND ALSO AS "A PAT ON THE BACK" FOR WOMEN WHO WERE "SEEN AND NOT HEARD" "
Sheryn - I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying the definition you've provided. It sounds to me as though you are driven by a high amount of negativity toward anything male, and you don't wish to accept any option other than "Men Bad - banish all men - or at the very least, make them all subservient and castrate them all".
The following is the definition of Mother's Day, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother's_Day
"Different countries celebrate Mother's Day on various days of the year because the day has a number of different origins. One school of thought claims this day emerged from a custom of mother worship in ancient Greece. Mother worship - which kept a festival to Cybele, a great mother of gods, and Rhea, the wife of Cronus - was held around the Vernal Equinox around Asia Minor and eventually in Rome itself from the Ides of March (March 15) to March 18.
"In the United States, Mother's Day was originally conceived by social activist Julia Ward Howe during the American Civil War with a call to unite women against war. She wrote the Mother's Day Proclamation:
"From the voice of a devastated Earth a voice goes up with
Our own. It says: "Disarm! Disarm!
The sword of murder is not the balance of justice.
"Blood does not wipe our dishonor,
Nor violence indicate possession.
As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil at the summons of war,
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great and earnest day of counsel.
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the meansWhereby the great human family can live in peace...
"Howe failed in her attempt to get formal recognition of a Mother's Day for Peace. Her idea was influenced by Anna Jarvis, a young Appalachian homemaker who, starting in 1858, had attempted to improve sanitation through what she called Mothers' Work Days. She organized women throughout the Civil War to work for better sanitary conditions for both sides, and in 1868 she began work to reconcile Union and Confederate neighbors.
"When Jarvis died, her daughter, also named Anna Jarvis, started the crusade to found a memorial day for women. The first such Mother's Day was celebrated in Grafton, West Virginia, on May 10, 1908, in the church where the elder Anna Jarvis had taught Sunday School. Grafton is the home to the International Mother's Day Shrine. From there, the custom caught on - spreading eventually to 45 states. The holiday was declared officially by somes states beginning in 1912. In 1914 President Woodrow Wilson declared the first national Mother's Day. Nine years after the first official Mother's Day holiday, commercialization of the U.S. holiday became so rampant that Anna Jarvis herself became a major opponent of what the holiday had become."
Eileen, as a point of reference, Hallmark did NOT come up with the idea of Mother's Day - they may have been the driving force behind the marketing schemes of today, but they did NOT create it.
If we go with the first school of thought, that it was created waaaaaay back in ancient Greece - possibly before - then we are on a track of the more Pagan and matriarchal aspects of society, and it could possibly not only be linked to May Day and the Equinox celebrations of fertility, but also to the Ides of March, Goddess-worship, and rites of passage into womanhood. Being thankful that one IS woman, that one has the ability to create life, to nurture, and to be an embodiment of a goddess in one's creating of life. Not to mention celebrating the whole "mother earth" idea, which cradles, nurtures and nourishes each and every person on her.
If we then decide to add in what Julia Howe and Anna Jarvis wanted most of all with their movement, which was to try and rally women together to unite for peace and work together toward a common goal, regardless of which side of the issue they were on (in their day, it was specifically the Civil War), it then takes on even further significance, and should not be hated at all.
So, taken all of the this together, instead of concentrating on the consumer-driven, corporate hoo-ha that's been hyped for years, concentrate instead on this:
Mother's Day could be looked upon as a day wherein we - as women, whether we be mothers, daughters, sisters, or aunts - can come together in a united effort to recognize the power that we have in the ability to create life, to nurture, and to nourish each other and the earth, and the power that the earth has to create life, to nourish and to nurture us.
Instead of focusing upon the negative aspect of what this has become, start a new trend for it, and have your friends and family join in. It doesn't have to be a negative day, or a day of hatred toward anything, whether general or specific. Turn it positive, and stop buying into the hype with your negativity.
~M
Thursday, November 09, 2006
Humanism vs Feminism
This is a post that I placed in the "WomenStrength" tribe at tribe.net... If you're interested in reading the complete thread, be warned - wear an asbestos suit... LOTS of flames going on there, and a lot of really angry, militant women (or should I say wymyn) who are pissed off about anyone saying anything negative about feminism...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Regarding feminism vs humanism... The following are selected texts from what I found in Wikipedia - the links are above:
"Feminism is a diverse and thoughtful collection of social theories, political movements and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerned with the experiences of women. Most feminists are especially concerned with social, political and economic inequality between men and women (in the context of it being to the disadvantage of women); some have argued that gendered and sexed identities, such as "man" and "woman", are socially constructed. Feminists differ over the sources of inequality, how to attain equality, and the extent to which gender and gender-based identities should be questioned and critiqued. In simple terms, feminism is the belief in social, political and economic equality of the sexes, and the movement organised around the belief that gender should not be the pre-determinant factor shaping a person's social identity, or socio-political or economic rights.
"Some feminist theories question basic assumptions about gender, gender difference and sexuality, including the category of "woman" itself as a holistic concept, other theories question the male/female dichotomy completely (offering instead a multiplicity of genders). Still other feminist theories take for granted the concept of "woman" and provide specific analyses and critiques of gender inequality, and most feminist social movements promote women's rights, interests and issues. Several subtypes of feminist ideology have developed over the years. Early feminists and primary feminist movements are often called the first-wave feminists, and feminists after about 1960 the second-wave feminists. More recently, some younger feminists have identified themselves as third-wave feminists while the second-wave feminists are still active.
"Some radical feminists, such as Mary Daly, Charlotte Bunch and Marilyn Frye, have advocated separatism - a complete separation of male and female in society and culture - while others question not only the relationship between men and women, but the very meaning of "man" and "woman" as well (see Queer theory). Some argue that gender roles, gender identity and sexuality are themselves social constructs (see also heteronormativity). For these feminists, feminism is a primary means to human liberation (i.e., the liberation of men as well as women.)"
*********************
"Humanism is a broad category of active ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities - particularly rationalism. Humanism is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems, and is also incorporated into some religious schools of thought.
"Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, Humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on faith, the supernatural, or divinely revealed texts. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, suggesting that solutions to our social and cultural problems cannot be parochial.
"Some have interpreted Humanism to be a form of speciesism, mostly because of the word itself, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Humanism does exalt human traits, but doesn't necessarily insist that no other species could or do have the same, or that other species have no rights just because they are not human. The term was originally intended to point out the focus on human affairs and concerns as opposed to those of gods; not meant to be taken as opposed to other species. For these reasons, Humanism appears to be neutral with regard to issues of animal rights."
***************************
I don't claim to have a degree in anything (other than my culinary arts degree, which doesn't mean anything in this debate), and I don't claim to understand all the nuances behind either of these movements.
However - It is from the definitions above that I can say I understand a little more about both of them and feel that I can make a comment regarding this thread.
Based upon the definitions above, the following would be my own basic interpretations:
Feminism: The belief that people should not define one's worth by gender, and that gender should not be considered when dealing with others under any circumstance.
Humanism: The belief that people, regardless of gender, should not be defined by gender, monetary, or social worth, but instead by their moral and ethical daily practices which are NOT defined by any church, but instead by inherent morality and human ethics.
So, I suppose, based upon that understanding, I am a humanist, not a feminist. I don't believe that it's only one's gender that should be considered to make one equal, but what they do, on a day-to-day level, which makes them better or worse, and equal with others.
Before you ask - yes, I believe that a female is capable of pretty much anything that a male is capable of doing, if she puts her mind to it. Yes, I believe that people should be receiving equal pay for equal work, and there should be no glass ceiling - regardless of race, creed, gender, or social standing.
HOWEVER, there are things which a male body does inherently better - just as there are things which the female body does inherently better. The human body was created with different strengths and weaknesses, not to single either gender out, but to instead have them work together as a team in order to survive on the most primal level. Evolution has not changed how our bodies have been created, nor will it anytime soon.
I believe that if you want to make a difference, you have to start with yourself, and act the way you want to be treated, assert yourself when you are wronged, stand up for your own rights, and demand that people accept you for who you are. I believe that you should hone your strengths, accept your weaknesses, and learn how to use both to their full advantage in life. I don't believe that working soley upon the feminist side will help everyone in society, and I don't believe that feminism must be accepted before humanism can work.
~M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Regarding feminism vs humanism... The following are selected texts from what I found in Wikipedia - the links are above:
"Feminism is a diverse and thoughtful collection of social theories, political movements and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerned with the experiences of women. Most feminists are especially concerned with social, political and economic inequality between men and women (in the context of it being to the disadvantage of women); some have argued that gendered and sexed identities, such as "man" and "woman", are socially constructed. Feminists differ over the sources of inequality, how to attain equality, and the extent to which gender and gender-based identities should be questioned and critiqued. In simple terms, feminism is the belief in social, political and economic equality of the sexes, and the movement organised around the belief that gender should not be the pre-determinant factor shaping a person's social identity, or socio-political or economic rights.
"Some feminist theories question basic assumptions about gender, gender difference and sexuality, including the category of "woman" itself as a holistic concept, other theories question the male/female dichotomy completely (offering instead a multiplicity of genders). Still other feminist theories take for granted the concept of "woman" and provide specific analyses and critiques of gender inequality, and most feminist social movements promote women's rights, interests and issues. Several subtypes of feminist ideology have developed over the years. Early feminists and primary feminist movements are often called the first-wave feminists, and feminists after about 1960 the second-wave feminists. More recently, some younger feminists have identified themselves as third-wave feminists while the second-wave feminists are still active.
"Some radical feminists, such as Mary Daly, Charlotte Bunch and Marilyn Frye, have advocated separatism - a complete separation of male and female in society and culture - while others question not only the relationship between men and women, but the very meaning of "man" and "woman" as well (see Queer theory). Some argue that gender roles, gender identity and sexuality are themselves social constructs (see also heteronormativity). For these feminists, feminism is a primary means to human liberation (i.e., the liberation of men as well as women.)"
*********************
"Humanism is a broad category of active ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities - particularly rationalism. Humanism is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems, and is also incorporated into some religious schools of thought.
"Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, Humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on faith, the supernatural, or divinely revealed texts. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, suggesting that solutions to our social and cultural problems cannot be parochial.
"Some have interpreted Humanism to be a form of speciesism, mostly because of the word itself, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Humanism does exalt human traits, but doesn't necessarily insist that no other species could or do have the same, or that other species have no rights just because they are not human. The term was originally intended to point out the focus on human affairs and concerns as opposed to those of gods; not meant to be taken as opposed to other species. For these reasons, Humanism appears to be neutral with regard to issues of animal rights."
***************************
I don't claim to have a degree in anything (other than my culinary arts degree, which doesn't mean anything in this debate), and I don't claim to understand all the nuances behind either of these movements.
However - It is from the definitions above that I can say I understand a little more about both of them and feel that I can make a comment regarding this thread.
Based upon the definitions above, the following would be my own basic interpretations:
Feminism: The belief that people should not define one's worth by gender, and that gender should not be considered when dealing with others under any circumstance.
Humanism: The belief that people, regardless of gender, should not be defined by gender, monetary, or social worth, but instead by their moral and ethical daily practices which are NOT defined by any church, but instead by inherent morality and human ethics.
So, I suppose, based upon that understanding, I am a humanist, not a feminist. I don't believe that it's only one's gender that should be considered to make one equal, but what they do, on a day-to-day level, which makes them better or worse, and equal with others.
Before you ask - yes, I believe that a female is capable of pretty much anything that a male is capable of doing, if she puts her mind to it. Yes, I believe that people should be receiving equal pay for equal work, and there should be no glass ceiling - regardless of race, creed, gender, or social standing.
HOWEVER, there are things which a male body does inherently better - just as there are things which the female body does inherently better. The human body was created with different strengths and weaknesses, not to single either gender out, but to instead have them work together as a team in order to survive on the most primal level. Evolution has not changed how our bodies have been created, nor will it anytime soon.
I believe that if you want to make a difference, you have to start with yourself, and act the way you want to be treated, assert yourself when you are wronged, stand up for your own rights, and demand that people accept you for who you are. I believe that you should hone your strengths, accept your weaknesses, and learn how to use both to their full advantage in life. I don't believe that working soley upon the feminist side will help everyone in society, and I don't believe that feminism must be accepted before humanism can work.
~M
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